TSU Remastered (CREATION THREAD)

[Zekai]

@Lunasa

Law of Equivalent Exchange is largely for Alchemy.

[Luna Pixu]

@Katrix
I freaking said so! Read my post properly before jumping to conclusions.

[Lunasa Prismriver]

@Kat

Well, it's not truly a must, but how I see it, it effectively functions as a limiter to avoid infinite power and forces more creative thinking.

As an example, if I had a mage against an ice sprite, fire magic would definitely be effective since it would create heat and weaken the ice, but the passive cold that the sprit would put out would also sap warmth from the fire and eventually put it out so then the mage would have to constantly keep putting energy into the fire to keep it going. Or the mage could choose to use the already given cold to create ice and use them as projectiles.

Something like that. And yes, I recognize that different systems of magic do exist and I will appreciate how they function, even if they contain that ex nihilo aspect that I don't care for.

[Tewi_Inaba]

@Katrix.: No if you wanted to "prepare" an aether for someone you would literally have to find a way to create life in another dimension that you can't een go to. s for how the souls will work theirs going to be a limited number of points for everyone's soul. the basic elements might cost 1 point while the level 3 ones wold cost5. You col put one level 3 on there for five points or you could do five base level ones. In addition to that each element has fives levels to it. so if you were to put all five into fire magic then you would be a lot more skilled but you would likely have little to no talent with opposing types such as water. This also means that if you buy one level in a higher power or your soul that you'll still only be a level one with that aspect. the element in question might be more powerful but you'll still have very limited power over that element and you might be weaker than someone with a plus 5 to one of the simpler elements because of this.

Also equivalent exchange is a very important part of this magic type. The most important one being the cost of mana vs the power or complexity of a spell.The more elements you need to put into a spell, the more taxing it is on the magic user. This like Lunasa said prevents you from using infant power to cast a uber powerful spell over and ovr and over again without any negative repercussions. It also makes some types of magic impossible to use alone. For example the rank five magic, also known as meta elements are going to consist of things s like Destruction, creation, void, time, space and so on. It doesn't matter how skilled or powerful one person is, they will never be able to use the meta elements on their own..

Likewise this also holds true for studying. You're actions in the rp will directly effect what your characters are capable of. I'm not limiting it to the point of actually being a game rather than an rp that strictly follows stats. I want to give everyone as much free will as possible with their characters. this serves to give more of an idea of what each character SHOULD be capable of. I won't do anything if a character just oversteps their bounds a litle her and there. After all humans have been known to do things they didn't think possible in the heat of the moment when instinct takes over. It wouldn't' be ery realistic if they were restricted to strict stat based limits without the chance to go beyond them to some degree. That being said the system will help me cut down on ass pulls and gary/marry sues while giving players a better idea how much damage they should be dealing and taking from attacks.

[Katrix]

@Lunasa

It sounds neat until your really do try to put it into effect. For the fire magic, where does the energy come from? Fire takes a good chunk of energy. Here as I see it there are two alternatives. Either you use the already existing energy in the air to create something hot (you still need something to burn), or you just carry around a container of gasoline. Using the cold has some of the same problems. You say that you create projectiles, but where does the material for the projectiles come from? Where does the energy for the speed of the projectiles come from?

Now let's get more involved, you have your source of power, and you can create your desired attack from it. So, where does the energy for moving the energy around come from?

Continuing with that, let's say that you solve that problem too, what is to stop the magic caster from simply removing the source of energy from their enemy? Taken the example above, what is to stop the mage from simply using ALL the cold from the ice sprite for something else. At that point there won't be any cold left for the ice sprite, and such, it won't be of any harm anymore, or it might not even be there at all anymore as the is no cold there anymore.

As long as you have some pure from of energy as an enemy, dispersing the energy is going to be much more efficient that using some other magic that then in return disperses the enemy. Say that all actions costs 1 unit for example. Dispersal costs one unit as that is all you do. If you use fire however you are both creating fire(1 unit), that will then disperse the energy(1 unit).

If you want to protect against that too then you also need some restriction on how and where energy can be drained from.



A much simpler idea that while still having many of the same problems, is still much easier to use is Matter Equivalency where the amount of matter that goes in is the same amount that goes out. FMA for example goes with Matter Equivalency(the energy for the alchemy itself is supplied from elsewhere, as such it's not true Equivalent Exchange)

[Lunasa Prismriver]

@Kat

While I do have answers to all those questions (which I will put in spoilers), I'll give up trying to defend my magic and admit that it's not fit for casual rping.

Spoiler:

All cast magic comes from the caster's own personal pool of mana, which would regenerate normally or by drinking a potion. Fire can be created by either gathering the heat in the air until it combusts and supplementing mana for fuel or by using tools, the most common type would be a rune, fire essence that has been sealed into a stone, a crystal would be more efficient for a rune. Ice projectiles could be created by accumulating the frost that has accumulated on surfaces or by collecting the water vapor in the air until a sufficiently large piece of ice is formed. Using this same type of manipulation, the caster would be able to launch projectiles.

While tearing something apart would technically be possible, the opposing party's own magic would function as a sort of barrier against any attacking force, significantly reducing its effect. That's not to say that if a mage were strong enough, ripping something apart would be possible at the cost of an extremely large amount of mana and energy on their part. Barrier charms, of physical, magical, and mental varieties, also help against such.

Everything leaks magic around itself, creating an aura, the stronger the being is, the more oppressive it is to anything else within the aura. The ice sprite, or elemental, in question has an aura made of mainly frost magic, creating a mostly permanent bubble of cold around it, this aura would weaken as its mana pool drains. A sprite, however, is the third tier of fairy, which are basically embodiments of nature and, by extension, magic itself so it would have a near infinite pool of mana. Fairies are the absolute weakest beings in the magical world, the sprites are significantly stronger, but are still only slightly above the strength of a novice mage.

No, I did not pull this out of my ass, I have an actual system worked out.

[Alayosho]

Im not gonna jump TOOOO far into this, but I would like to point out one thing:

"Ice projectiles could be created by accumulating the frost that has accumulated on surfaces or by collecting the water vapor in the air until a sufficiently large piece of ice is formed"

The ambient water vapor in the air is like...nothing. Just breathe deep and see. Humans don't breathe water, so if there was a sufficient amount, we'd be uncomfortable(Similarly try this on the coast when its windy and you got that sea spray, or when there's a large amount of steam in your face from boiling water for noodles or eggs). Even making TINY TINY TINY things into ice not only requires an insane BTU/energy transfer, but there's simply not enough water in the air to form a decent projectile.

THAT is where the magic comes in, I would say. Where scienece and fact simply prove its not possible. For the ice example above, You got all sorts of reactions from heat transfer, water being ripped right out of the air (Thus drying out a HUGE area or being straight-up entropic and making a vacuum or causing fission of atoms) and probably some science stuff even I dont know. Hell, I only got ONE quarter of Electrical and refrigeration in collage. Who knows what I could do to screw over air/fire magic theory with a full year?

Abandon the solid idea of extreme equivalent exchange. That is, If you make fire, there has to be cold to make it, and Matter exchange like Kat said above. Instead focus on the person's energy, wherever it may come from, being the thing that is exchanged. Sure, you might need more things in the real world to exchange in order to make some stronger magic or more solid magic, But for smaller things the person's personal energy could be the majority if not all of the exchanged ...uh...exchangables?


Addendum: While its nice to have a well thought out system for magic (Cuz i truly hate lack of reason for things happening!) its also important to keep the magic "magical", otherwise what's the point? The systems we make for magic in our worlds should CONSTANTLY be reviewed, fine-tuned and checked. We aren't God, so why would we think we can make a perfect or even functional system at all? the longer we spend making these systems work, and learning about the parts in them, the more functional they become...but they will NEVER truly work, There will always be something wrong that collapses the system.

[Lunasa Prismriver]

Okay I get it, I GET IT

I lost, my system is flawed, it's broken, it's illogical. I admit defeat, I won't say anything else.

Please just stop already

[Alayosho]

I would like to draw attention to the addendum again. Its meant meant to make you feel bad(NOT meant to make you feel bad**), but show that no one is perfect in this regard. Or rather, All systems are inherently perfect, and when we begin to think too hard about them is when we create the problems for ourselves.

Please, by all means continue your system and make it wonderful. Ignore me and Kat, cuz we got some EXTREMELY in-depth systems (I got a bloody wikia page cuz I cant just keep it in my head anymore) and we like to nit-pick things. Shame Kat and Alayo!! Shame!!


Edit: holy sh** dyslexia... Edited part in bold, then corrected right after

[Tewi_Inaba]

Alright a few things i want to get out of the way.

1: In FMA the energy they use is generated from the ground and thus created by the world. Using that energy to transmute is no different than using the earth to make a hand or something. Both the earth used and the energy used come from the earth so honestly it's the same thing. So long as the earth supplies the energy required to use the transmutations it can still be considered equivalent exchange. The Father character in FMA Brotherhood actually used a method to block alchemists from using that energy. As a result they couldn't use their alchemy.

2: Since magic or mana in this world comes from an alternate plane of existence and you have to use the appropriate amount of energy in order to use the more complex elements in spells this every well can be considered equivalent exchange as well. After all Mana to us in this world is simply matter in the Aether. And just as we feed off the mana from the Aether, the Aether also takes energy from us as well. So yes this rp follows equivilant exchane but it's still posible to make something from energy since it's coming from the world linked to our own.

3: The idea of perfection in anything, be it magic or science or whatever you like is ridicules. As humans, it's impossible for us to ever become perfect, creat something that is perfect or even to understand what a truly perfect being would be like. While I won't claim the magic created for this rp to be perfect, I well say i put a lot of thought into making it so it could both be studied within the rp while still being simple enough that a casual role player could enjoy it. That being said, while the magic type is not, nor will it ever be perfect, I hop everyone is content with what I've come up with.

[Tewi_Inaba]

Alright, I know i've been slow about working on this and getting the OOC up but there are just a few things I need to finish before then.

Anyway the reason i'm posting here now is to talk about alternate ways of obtaining magical abilities.

Just as a quick reminder, in this version of TSU, you gain the power to use magic when an Aether choses to bound with you. This links your soul to theirs and allows you to feed off of each other. you gain the ability to use magic and they gain Rem.

So what if you don't have an Aether and you want to learn magic? Or maybe you do but yo want to shift your soul to hold new elements or magic types.

There are several ways to do this so lets talk about a few

! Deity worship. There are going to be several beings of higher power in this RP such as demons, celestials and various spirits. While these beings themselves probably won't make an appearance in the rp themselves, devotion to them may grant the person special magic magic powers based on whatever deity they believe in.

However there are some conditions to this. Just because your mana comes from a higer being and not an aether, that dose NOT mean you will have the power of a god. You only have as much power as that being will allow you to have. Also take into account that there are bound to be others also following whatever deity your character picks. This means any number of characters can get power from one sours, but none of them will be able to use the deity's full power. You're power will grow based on your loyalty and the deeds you do to honor said deity. Doing any sort of taboo against your deity or breaking their rules will cause you to weaken or lose your power altogether.

I won't list all of the possible deities here because I want to allow all of you to insert your own. Maybe you have a favorite spirit or divin or deminic being from some video game or from mythology or whatever you like. There are a few of these beings already present in TSU Lore so I will be listing them and giving a short discription on what they all do.

2: Enlightenment. You've gained an understanding beyond that of the physical realm. You're understanding of the aether has allowed you to tap into it's magic without a direct link between yourself and an aether being. Because of this you will grow slower and will usually be less powerful than a mage with the same amount of training as you. However you gain a nearly limitless pool of mana by drawing from the aether itself.

3: Being Cursed/Possessed. There may be some malevolent or evil spirits or other supernatural beings that can grant you magic powers at the cost of your soul, your freedom or your blood. Being possesed by a spirit, weather they be good or evil will allow you to use their powers. Although they would be the one in control of your actions whenever you use magic. Other events such as being bitten by a vampire or just straight up being cursed by another mage may grant some level of power ith a specific set of rules.

for example, being bitten by a vampire will grant you a fraction of that vampire's power. However you are forced to become their servant to use this power. You will continue to serve them util either they die or decide to free you. In most cases a newly turned vampire will not survive without their master or mistress. This means that gaining power this way will lead to your character being the servant of whatever vampire turned them.

4: Inheritance. The aether have lives and families just like we do. Since they are meant to be our other halves then naturally when two magic users fall in love, so too will their aether counterparts. Due to this, two magical beings have a higher chance of producing an offspring with magic powers than a couple where one or neither parents have magic powers. This is because their aethers will usually create offspring as well to bound with their children. However this wont' always work. The aethers may be unable or may chose not to have children or the child might not bond with it's human.

5: Murder. Yes it's possible to kill people and steel their magic powers away from them.... Oh you want to know how? too bad because no one knows this yet. But don't worry, stick around in the IC long enough and you'll figure it out.

I'm going to make a list of some of the higher powers you can gain magic from here but i'm REEEEALY hungry so i'll do that when i get back. k thanks bye

[Tewi_Inaba]

Elements for level 1, 2 and 3 are all finished. I'll be working on... idk what i'll work on next but it won't be elements.

(probably work on lunar magic next sorry tr bby i wont' make you wait any longer)

[Zekai]

You might want to make a note somewhere on the elements page on what things like Ordo and the other names people might not recgonized are.

[Tewi_Inaba]

It would be hard for me to judge which elements need explaining. There are obvious ones like fire and ice but I also assumed Ordo (meaning order) and Entropy (meaning chaos) were also obvious. If you don't know what an element is just ask.

[Zekai]

If u do like Ordo (order), Entropy (chaos) and stuff like that, it would help cause those words ive never seen those words before and im sure there are others that havent seen them too.