Announcement

**Katrix** · 01-31-2014, 03:00 PM

@Cucoo
When I think about it Xemnas can in fact be ranked over 75.

"I'm carrying on what you yourself began, and I'm creating a brand new world, one heart at a time."
—Xemnas to Ansem

**Cucoo5** · 01-31-2014, 03:03 PM

@ TRXD

true
it is kinda to a point where it is sort of out there

@ Katrix

So that quote is actually literal instead of the usual figurative?
That's interesting...

**Katrix** · 01-31-2014, 03:08 PM

@Cucoo

Yes, trough both KH 358/2 days and KH2 which covers about one year, Xemnas is constantly gathering hearts which he uses to create a artificial Kingdom Hearts. Once he have Kingdom Hearts, he can create a new world, or as the games says, he becomes something which is not human (probably 100 on the scale).

**Cucoo5** · 01-31-2014, 03:15 PM

@ Katrix

well darn...
so in a sense, KHs is sort of like Monado but...not quite the same function, right?

100 = being that can control the universe with no limit
75 = God that could create a universe once with enough energy
50 = Demigods that I would expect a lot of game characters in AtWaG to fall around
25 = Humans
0 = a lone fruit fly.

Spoiler:

My head canon of where the other characters would rank about

John - 60

Renamon - 57

Nera - 57

Yukari - 73

Yuuka - 70

Jason - 30

Patchouli - 53

Can't remember some off top my head so I'll just leave that for now for discussion.

**S121** · 01-31-2014, 03:26 PM

@Cucoo

Personally, I think it would be hard to gauge the Characters, mainly John and Isaac.

With Six, I'd give him a 56 or something around there.

As for John and Isaac, they are harder to quantify, due to that luck. Sure, Isaac has some REALLY sh*tty luck, but it only seems to become good luck when he is in danger. Isaac actually managed to not only survive an orbital drop, but an entire moon falling with him. Both these guys are well known for doing things they really shouldn't be able to do, like when Isaac took on a moon-sized monster, or when John fights pretty much anything more powerful than himself.

In a sense, luck is a form of passive reality warping, warping probability.

They are definitely not capable of creating a universe, but they would fit pretty high on the list, considering their non-quantifiable traits.

For John, possibly a 60-64, depending on the situation.

For Isaac, he's a relatively normal human, save for his abnormal strength and intelligence, as well as his ability to survive serious wounds. I would give him a 57, mainly for his intelligence, creativity, and ability to survive the worst the universe can throw at him. Yes, it's higher than Six, but that's because despite Isaac being squishier than Six, Isaac has that strange, sadistic luck of his, possibly more powerful than John's, depending on how you look at it. He's incredibly unlucky, but he never seems to die, even when there's no way he should survive.

As for Takoizu, she's really up there. To be honest, I can easily see her in the 75-80 range. The only reason it isn't higher is because of her inexperience. She basically has the power to alter limits themselves, and can make the laws of physics her plaything, but she's not as experienced as Yukari. Takoizu can alter the universe with almost no limit, but creating universes would be much harder. Takoizu's the inverse to that rule. Now, if she had the same experience as Yukari, then we're talking about higher ratings, like 90s. There are a lot of boundaries that can simply make her power sky-rocket out of nowhere, so that's why it's so high. Of course, her power is mainly theoretical and vague, due to boundary manipulation being such a broad form of reality warping. We're talking about a person that could turn men into GODS.

Of course, I see a problem with this scale. Sure, Takoizu can alter reality, but wouldn't creating universes be higher on the list than simply altering it? There's also the matter of John being close to universe-creating entity, and that's not something John can do. He's just really, really, really, really good at surviving. If John had a superpower, it would be not dying and having great luck. Same for Isaac, except for the great luck part. It's more like a supernatural power for those two.

That being said, weaker characters could still easily kill stronger Characters. Each one has strengths and weaknesses, and most battles are circumstantial and not as concrete as this rating system would suggest.

Before you say that it's a lot and that I'm biased in my ratings, know that this is supposed to be their absolute maximum rating.

**Cucoo5** · 01-31-2014, 03:42 PM

@ S121

This is the one thing I'm just curious on:

Boundary Manipulation VS The power to create a universe VS Being able to control the basis of the Universe without limit (That's why I put Alvis up at 99 because Mr. Monado or as I just now decided to nickname him: The Operating System of the Universe...well...)

Alvis: "Universe.exe has encountered a problem and needs to restart. Would you like to continue?"
Shulk: "Yes."

- If Xenoblade was a computer thing

**Katrix** · 01-31-2014, 04:11 PM

@Cucoo

Why haven't I thought of this before. Compare the χ-blade with the Monado. They are both weapons that indirectly have the power over the world. Here is some text from the wiki.

Despite looking similar to a Keyblade, it is something "altogether different"; rather than being a man-made counterpart to Kingdom Hearts, it coexists with Kingdom Hearts. As such, instead of opening the door to an artificial Kingdom Hearts like the Keyblade of heart, it actually materializes the true Kingdom Hearts, a perfect union of all hearts and worlds.

The only time when we have actually see the χ-blade is when Xehanort made it. Does that means that Xehanort also could make a world if he wanted to?

**S121** · 01-31-2014, 04:12 PM

@Cucoo

Personally, I consider Boundary Manipulation and controlling the basis of the universe without limit to be almost one and the same, only they both use different methods. Alvis uses the universe's very energy to warp and create as he sees fit, while Boundary manipulation alters the very boundaries of the universe, the things that hold it together. If you want a reason why, look at this page.

http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/B...y_Manipulation

At full power and with enough experience, Takoizu or Yukari would be able to create universes with ease. As it states in the wiki, "The user can manipulate all boundaries - material, spiritual, conceptual, metaphysical, and so on. Since everything is physically and existentially defined by boundaries, the possibilities offered are limitless - for limits themselves are nothing more than the boundary Possible/Impossible, and the user can manipulate even that. Simply put, there is ultimately nothing the user cannot achieve."

Here's a couple highlights of the power:

Deification (Man/God) - They would be able to turn people into actual gods.

Logic Manipulation (Possible/Impossible) - They can make the impossible, possible with nothing but a snap of their fingers.

Omnificence and Nonexistence (Creation/Erasure) - Self explanatory.

Omnipotence (Limited/Unlimited and Relative/Absolute) - Self explanatory.

Omnipresence (Nowhere/Everywhere) - Self explanatory.

Omniscience (Knowledge/Ignorance) - Self explanatory.

Wound/Death Transferal (Self/Others) - if they get injured, they can simply transfer wounds to others, or vice versa.

Infinite Supply (Zero/Infinity) - With this, they could technically give themselves infinite power and/or energy, or at least boosted power and energy. They could even drain someone else of their energy.

Truth Manipulation (Truth/Lies) - With this, all they need to do is say anything and it will happen.

Reversed Effect (Defeat/Victory) - Them losing could mean victory. Don't ask how this works, I'm not going to even try to explain it. I have no idea how it works.

Power Immunity (Susceptible/Immune) - They can make themselves immune to anything.

Power Negation (Omnipotence/Impotence) - They can literally strip people of their power.

Meta Probability Manipulation (Possible/Certain) - With this, if there's a possibility that something will happen, it will happen.

Physical Godhood (Wave/Particle) - Yukari actually has this one as a spellcard.

This is what it can do: http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Physical_Godhood

Meta Powers (Meta/Hypo) - "Metaphysical powers that are beyond reality and/or operate "from the outside". These powers are somewhat alien, and their nature / origin / inner workings are essentially beyond understanding. As such, these powers are essentially invincible, as other characters cannot comprehend and have no grasp on them." - http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Meta_Powers

Meta Ability Creation and Power Erasure (Able/Unable) - give people powers, or take their power away.

Causality Manipulation (Cause/Effect) - "♪ If you want the universe to end, clap your hands. ♪"

Time Manipulation (Past/Present/Future) - Alter time as they see fit. By extention, they could also do the next boundary.

Time Manipulation (Eternity/Instant) - give them virtually unlimited time to do something, or have their actions play out in an instant.

And the list goes on...

Simply put, it is the power to do anything and everything that comes to the imagination, even surpassing their limitations. Of course, I have not even begun to scratch the surface of what it's capable of in the RP, and I intend not to. It really would be unfair for everyone if I did that, so I'm holding back a lot of what it's truly capable of.

Funny thing is, there are some people that can stop them. Take Shikieiki for instance. She is said to be more powerful than Reimu, Yukari, and Yuyuko combined. I assume Shikieiki has some kind of absolute power negation, allowing her to judge people without having to worry about them fighting her. This is just speculation though. There's also reacting faster than they can, preventing them from altering boundaries. Of course, you would have to kill, or interrupt them in an instant, or else you would not win.

**WriggleRid3r** · 01-31-2014, 04:15 PM

Tis exactly why Yukari is such a delicate subject. *puts on hazmat suit.

**S121** · 01-31-2014, 04:23 PM

@Wriggle

Yea, no kidding.

Of course, there are ways to stop them, but it requires that you PREVENT THEM FROM ACTING!!!

If not, then you are really screwed. XD

**Cucoo5** · 01-31-2014, 04:31 PM

@ S121

right

so in that case then on a rating, Yukari would be a the same, if not, a close second, to Alvis

So let's see...

Alvis is an AI that is, theoretically, linked to the source-code of the universe which would make him the equivalent of an OS.
or is he...more like BIOS....
*serious thinking face*

If I had to use a math metaphor

Boundary manipulation is technically taking the inverse of a function of the universe
So would Alvis be more powerful than that or no different if he is like a computer designed to alter the universe?

To me it would be one step greater as he could just redefine all constraints...which he kind of did at the end of Xenoblade which...
...using a metaphor...
...he updated the universe as it was becoming "stagnant" or...outdated.
So he rewrote the entire code...

Where to really put him...

I mean, on the scale he is NOT a 100 as he does have his limits...

**S121** · 01-31-2014, 04:50 PM

@Cucoo

But there lies the problem. Boundary manipulation literally has no limits. Even constraints are governed by boundaries, which they can alter to their liking. Heck, even the boundaries could have boundaries. It would be meta-boundary manipulation. They can do that. It truly is confusing when you get to the meta stages of boundary manipulation. If they wanted to, they could remove the boundary of immutable and alterable, altering the very limits of their power and allowing them to redefine the boundaries themselves. To be honest, they're both powerful, and boundary manipulation gives me a headache to talk about, so I might leave it at that. I can't help but imagine boundaries as limitless sliders and strings joining together objects, allowing them to function, and when you start seeing things like that, you know you need a break.

Now, combat-wise, there are ways to stop them, but it's not easy, even impossible if they're prepared.

To be honest, I'm actually a little scared to fight Yukari now... 0_0;;;

I might need to do some more planning. There needs to be a way to prevent her from acting at all. If she so much as forms a thought to manipulate a boundary, everyone's in trouble. I'll give you a better plan later. I might incorporate flashbangs and Sakuya...

**Kristia** · 01-31-2014, 04:53 PM

there is one thing you guys maybe haven�t checked..

will power. Even the most powerful beings can fall by the ones with greater will

and I hate making paperwork so I�ll be back when I finish it

**S121** · 01-31-2014, 04:54 PM

@Kristia

Even willpower has boundaries, and as such, it can be altered.

It would work like this:

Target= "John Doe"

Boundary to be manipulated= Willpower

"Slider Set"= Strong/Weak

It makes you wonder why Yukari didn't do that to herself.

**Cucoo5** · 01-31-2014, 04:59 PM

@ S121

true...

On Fighting Yukari...we would need Melia...
Unless I adapt her Arts seal ability into an alternate form of Purge.

I'm thinking about just giving the Monado all the abilities that the various characters in Xenoblade had so that I can consolidate their abilities rather than possibly introducing them.

On Alvis VS Boundaries

I really can't see...

Ok Alvis is not as OP as I thought unless we look at duration.

Altering a boundary is not permanent...is it?

If it is, then Alvis and Yukari are equals in every way except the fact Alvis requires input before he technically can modify anything (Like any computer)

Announcement

RP General Discussion

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment